50 replies to this topic

[nivola]

Hi all

I am after any infomation on the mighty Brooklands race track at Perry Lakes in Western Australia.

I know there was 200meters left of limestine 2 years ago and I may go there and take some snaps tomorrow.

I know Terry can help.


The other hunt is I was once told of early road races on motor bikes. TT racing and I cant remember who it was that told me so I asking if anyone knows about it on the west coast.

Oh and caversham was great last weekend except for the dust.

Nivola

[Terry Walker]

It's here:




Just park on the grassed area, and walk south into the scrub, There's a broken down fence, and on the other side is the limestone base remains of the track. Yellow dashes indicate location.

[nivola]

Now i just need to find out the history of the place. I Placed a marker on google earth the other day but dont know if it is working or not. Some times I stuff things up LOL.

Thanx Terry

[Doug Nye]

Fellers - do please tell we foreigners more about Brooklands race track at Perry Lakes?

DCN

[David McKinney]

Australians - especially those in the West - are no doubt tucked up in their beds, so until they stir here’s a bit to be going on with.
Brooklands was a one-mile cinder track near Perth, used for two meetings in 1932 before it went bust: apparently the meetings drew big crowds, but most didn’t pay to get in... Motorcycle racing continued at the track however.
The results of both car meetings were dominated by small cars - 7hp Austins and Triumphs and the like. Most interesting thing about the main race at the first meeting is that the winner, who raced under the name of “Ralph de Palma”, was only 15 (though he gave his age as 20). In spite of this promising start, he apparently never raced again.

[Vitesse2]

Being English, am I allowed to answer?

"Ralph de Palma"'s real name was Hugo Armstrong (no relation AFAIK ;) ) He was apparently killed in action in WW2.

The track plan of Brooklands was very similar to Sitges and I understand the corners were slightly banked. Must have been interesting with a cinder surface!

The first meeting was spread over Easter 1932 with races on both Saturday March 26th and Monday March 28th. A second meeting on June 25th saw a bizarre accident involving an aircraft and some spectators: shortly afterwards the operating company went bankrupt and cars never raced at Brooklands again, although the local Harley-Davidson club used it for many years.

[nivola]

From what i have read loosely reading websites in lunch breaks is that it was the site of one of the first comercial aircraft airlines (I may be wrong though!)

I know They didnt put up fences and expected people to pay!!!!

We need this place remembered cause I think it actually was the first purposed built car circuit to live in australia! everything else was a speedway or public road circuit.

[Terry Walker]

In the 1960s it looked like this:



This is the official circuit map:

[terry mcgrath]

A very interesting story the whole airfield/race circuit exercise at one meeting a plane was racing a car around the circuit and the wing tip of the plane hit a spectator!
terry

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by nivola
.....We need this place remembered cause I think it actually was the first purposed built car circuit to live in australia! everything else was a speedway or public road circuit.

How different is it from Maroubra or Penrith, really?

The corners aren't both left and right, but they also aren't speedway-like. They weren't significantly banked, but I seem to recall they had some degree of banking, which could be said of Penrith if not Maroubra.

Where does Aspendale stand in this discussion, too? And if there is any reality in the supposed circuit at Rutherford in 1919?

[Vitesse2]

Surely Maroubra was much more like the original Brooklands? Concrete surface, high banking ....

The few pics I've seen seem to reinforce its terrifying reputation ....

[Ray Bell]

Oh, yeah, it was steeply banked...

And it was very short.

[nivola]

here is the google earth link

http://maps.google.c...3&t=k&z=18&om=1


http://maps.google.c...1&source=embed" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map

The second bit is a image thing that my work I dont know thow but worth a try.

I managed to get there yesterday afternoon so I will upload some images when I can tonight or tomorrow I hope!

Ray

[ken devine]

Terry Walker check your Armstrong photos you will find some photos there of the racing.

[Terry Walker]

An unpublished photo, and a news clipping, from Brooklands in Western Australia, from the late Eric Armstrong's scrap book:



That's Eric himself in the car barely visible through the dust. When this stunt was repeated at the second meeting, the low-flying plane hit a spectator in the "grandstand", or rather what the Americans accurately call "bleachers".

[nivola]

Well finaly I got my you know what together and here are 2 shots of what is left.




Does this look right terry?

[Terry Walker]

Yes, that's it. The bottom one shows the shallow banking on a curve. It's grown in quite a lot since I was last there some years ago.

Another dead circuit is Mooliabeenie (1950s), and there's a few pics of it as it is today on my website

www.terrywalkersplace.com

[cavvy]

Nivola,
the bottom picture is how I remember it from the early 60s - my father pointed it out to us when Perry Lakes Stadium was being built. He rode his bike down from West Perth more for the planes than the cars & my brother I cycled over from Doubleview as teenagers.
Thanks for the memories Terry - any chance you can post Mooliabeenie from space. Completed an advanced driving course (WASCC) in the late 60s which included a visit to the strip.

[Terry Walker]

No chance of pictures of Mooliabeenie from Google Earth or Google Map - resolution is awful for that part of the countryside, you can't even see the track at all. The National Library is Canberra has some 1950s air survey photos, and probably the local Mapping agency has some recent air cover. But they cost money and take time to get.

[Wilyman]

Originally posted by cavvy
Nivola,
the bottom picture is how I remember it from the early 60s - my father pointed it out to us when Perry Lakes Stadium was being built. He rode his bike down from West Perth more for the planes than the cars & my brother I cycled over from Doubleview as teenagers.
Thanks for the memories Terry - any chance you can post Mooliabeenie from space. Completed an advanced driving course (WASCC) in the late 60s which included a visit to the strip.

cavvy,
As a 15 year old I attended a motorcycle race meeting at Mooliabeenie airstrip. Geoff Duke was the star of the day with his 500cc Gilera.
It must have been 100 degrees plus in the shade. I stood up in a bus all the way from Perth!
On arriving all drinks had been sold, people were scrambling for the ice in the coolers, there was no water available. Oh, and the flies..
The track surface, gravel bound by tar had disintegrated with the heat, the ball bearing gravel had come to the surface. The bikes had to race on this!!.
The local press had a great photo of Duke in the Monday edition. I sent for a copy of this and now have it enlarged and framed on my "office" wall.

PS. Supposedly when Duke's Gileras [2] arrived on the Fremantle wharf they had to declare a value to customs. There being no precedent the officials arrived at a value of ten pounds!! What price now?

[Terry Walker]

Hey Wileyman, my older brother was there that day. He and a mate rode their bikes (BSA Road Rocket and BSA Gold Star respectively) all the way from Bullfinch to Moolie - say 260 miles - watched the racing, and then raced each other 260 miles back to Bullfinch. He took a few bad pics on a box brownie.

I can tell you the flies are as adhesive now as ever.

[nivola]

Hey Cavvy good to see you on here aswell as 10-10ths!

Good to here about some people spent time there over the years.

I here you dad liked his planes and was a lucky lucky man.

Now where to hunt for other images?

Wily u lucky bugger. i would give my left you know what to go see that!!!! the joys of being born several decades later!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nivola

[murray thomas]

Originally posted by Wilyman


cavvy,
As a 15 year old I attended a motorcycle race meeting at Mooliabeenie airstrip. Geoff Duke was the star of the day with his 500cc Gilera.
It must have been 100 degrees plus in the shade. I stood up in a bus all the way from Perth!
On arriving all drinks had been sold, people were scrambling for the ice in the coolers, there was no water available. Oh, and the flies..
The track surface, gravel bound by tar had disintegrated with the heat, the ball bearing gravel had come to the surface. The bikes had to race on this!!.
The local press had a great photo of Duke in the Monday edition. I sent for a copy of this and now have it enlarged and framed on my "office" wall.

PS. Supposedly when Duke's Gileras [2] arrived on the Fremantle wharf they had to declare a value to customs. There being no precedent the officials arrived at a value of ten pounds!! What price now?

Wilyman
I was to young to get to that and I would of loved to seen Geoff Duke

I believe he was very impressed with our local rider in George Scott who was the only one to get anywhere near him

Murray T

[murray thomas]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Yes, that's it. The bottom one shows the shallow banking on a curve. It's grown in quite a lot since I was last there some years ago.

Another dead circuit is Mooliabeenie (1950s), and there's a few pics of it as it is today on my website

www.terrywalkersplace.com

Terry

I remember my father taking me to look at a circuit. I dont now how old I was

It was a banked track which to me as a kid the banking looked steep

The track was in real bad condition so that would of been maybe 1950

Now Terry I thought this track was just west of the Shenton Park subway and did go looking for it in my Teen years

So Terry was this another track or would it of been Brooklands I would of seen

Would of not been may roads from shenten park subway there towards Perry lakes those days, so it could of been it

I wonder if he did take any photos of it maybe I will look

As for Mooly

If I was lucky some times I could see it from the plane flying in and out of Perth to the Pilbra

Only because I new where to look the main straight stood out well from the air

Went there about 3 years ago shame!!!!

Murray T

[Terry Walker]

Where you were was indeed Brooklands. No other banked track, abandoned, in the 1950s, that I know of in that area, or, come to think of it, any other area.

[Catalina Park]

Now about the other Brooklands, the one on the other side of the country. What was the story there?

[Terry Walker]

This one? Outskirts of Sydney. It was not, so far as I could find out, ever used. Built in the late 20s, but not used. There's undoubtedly an interesting story behind it somewhere. I'm sure a New South Wales based researcher could turn something up.

Edit: as an afterthought, the shape on the map is not right - the l;ong sides were parallel, and the north and south curves were semicircles. There is a photomontage on my website where I laid a not very gooid air photo of the remnants of the track over a modern street map.

www.terrywalkersplace.com

[Catalina Park]

I found something on the Penrith Library website quite a few years back. They gave the story as the landowner building the track and then his wife died and he lost interest. It was supposedly used for one motorcycle meeting but I would not trust the source without further research.

[Ray Bell]

How old is that piece of topo map, Terry?

Seems to me it's pretty long in the tooth. I've never known the road into Werrington to go that way, it always ran from the street shown as a straight crossroad over the highway IIRC. I really must look up an old street directory some time.

And also as I recall, in Fast Tracks you say that the banking was fairly high, and that some of it survived for a very long time.

[Terry Walker]

The map is a 1942 revision of a 1927 1-mile = 1 inch Army map.

The northern end of the circuit survived well into the 1960s, possibly a lot later, but you can't find it on Google Map now.

[brooklandsairstrip]

I have a copy of the motorcycle track layout within the motor car track at brooklands....have it saved but I do not know how to add it to this forum if anyone wants it ...if so please advise / assist me to post the pic. The map is from a motorcycle scramble race programme for 1954.

Edited by brooklandsairstrip, 14 January 2010 - 18:06.

[Gary C]

Blimey!! How many Brooklands race circuits were there? At my count, it's up to three already!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by brooklandsairstrip
.....if so please advise / assist me to post the pic. The map is from a motorcycle scramble race programme for 1954.

If you can't work out the 'ATTENTION EVERYONE: how to post your images' thread at the top of the main page, then send it to me. e.mail address is as below.

[Vitesse2]

Blimey!! How many Brooklands race circuits were there? At my count, it's up to three already!

At least four.

There was another one in South Africa.

[Terry Walker]

Quote from "The West Australian", 27 June 1932

HIT BY AEROPLANE

TWO MEN INJURED

Accident at Motor Track

Swooping down at a fast speed to within about 30 feet from the ground an aeroplane banked suddenly and its right wing dashed to the ground two officials whow ere waiting to call out the drivers for the first event at the Brooklands racing track, which surrounds the West Subiaco aerodrome on Saturday afternoon. The men were L G McColl, the Sporting Car Club's referee, and Mr Norman Marshall, a director of Brooklands (WA) Ltd, and manager of Kemsley and Co.

A large crowd watched the Klemm monoplane circle overhead and the roar of the racing cars being warmed up drowned the noise of its engine as it turned at the east end of the landing ground and swooped down towards the portion of the racing track between the hangar and the inside fence. Flying flat, seemingly less than 30 feet from the ground, and travelling at between 60 and 70 miles per hour, its pilot (Captain Duncan Stewart) banked the 'plane steeply, perhaps to follow the curve of the track or perhaps to swing around the hangar to land. There was a sudden crash and Mr McColl and Mr Marshall fell to the ground. The machien flattened out, climbed, and circled away with the right wingtip reduced to a jagged edge of thre-ply.

A doctor and officials were beside the men immediately. His face gashed and deathly white, Mr McColl rose to his feet after a few moments; but Mr Marshall appeared to be badly injured. He was taken to St Omer Hospital by the St John Ambulance, and last night his condition was reported to be serious. It is understood that his left arm was fractured in two places, and that he suffered extensive injuries to his ribs.

Mr McColl was extraaordinarily lucky. Having served in the Citizen Air Force in Victoria, he was not alarmed when the 'plane swooped down, but the sudden steep bank was unexpected and only an instinctive duck saved his head from taking the full force of the impact. His height - 5 ft 6 in - showed how low the wing came. Captain Stewart, a former Royal Air Force pilot who has followed commercial aviation almost continuously since 1918, landed again after circling the aerodrome. He was horrified to learn of the accident. When he felt the crash he thought that the wing tip had grazed the ground. The wing tip and aileron tip of the monoplane had been practically demolished. If a fraction more had collapsed the 'plane would have been out of control.

[Terry Walker]

Construction of the new athletics stadium has encoached on the remnants of Brooklands, as can be seen from the latest available Google pic. The last remaining traces of the banked north-west turn have been obliterated. A small portion of the northern straight probably survives unscathed close to the CSIRO buildings of the right.

[RStock]

Surely Maroubra was much more like the original Brooklands? Concrete surface, high banking ....

The few pics I've seen seem to reinforce its terrifying reputation ....

Maroubra sounded interesting , so I did some googleing and found this , if anyone cares .

http://www.randwick....ndexdl_186.aspx

and photos here by entering Maroubra speedway into the search .

http://www.photosau....cripts/home.asp

Edited by REDARMYSOJA, 15 January 2010 - 04:22.

[brooklandsairstrip]

Blimey!! How many Brooklands race circuits were there? At my count, it's up to three already!

thanx Ray....tried to follow it but I didnt even get the first page. I'll send to you direct (If i can manage that!!!).
Meanwhile folks.....anyone interested in that other roundy roundy racetrack from the past...Lake Perkolilli...about 30 miles east of Kalgoorlie, western australia. Whilst on the subject....There was a Gran Prix 'around the houses' race circuit in the 1950's in Narrogin west australia too! cheers.

Edited by brooklandsairstrip, 17 January 2010 - 18:53.

[Doug Nye]

...and how many short-lap, midget car and motor-cycle speedway ovals have there been in Australia?

DCN

[Ray Bell]

Brooklands... use the search feature at the top of the page to find postings and threads about Lake Perkolilli (or is that Perkollili? Try both) on this forum...

Here's your diagram... but what about the rest of the programme?



Doug, you'd quickly run out of fingers and toes trying to count them! Just in the Riverina area of NSW I can immediately thing of a speedway near Young, possibly one nearby at Moppity, a speedway at Moama, another at Wagga I'm fairly sure, Mildura had or has something, there were races held at the horse track or showground at Albury (that's ignoring the road circuit and Hume Weir circuit), I think Tumut had a speedway, Temora too, and there was so many dirt twisty circuits that at one time they were thinking of aligning with the CAMS for some misguided reason. Leeton was one of those, but I don't remember the rest.

The multitudes of tracks around you'd never get to the bottom of the list. Brian Lear would be able to add plenty, I'm sure.

[Lee Nicolle]

...and how many short-lap, midget car and motor-cycle speedway ovals have there been in Australia?

DCN

It would be well over a 100 Oz wide. I personally have run at 15 in SA and s/w Victoria and there is several more in that area. Plus a lot that are no longer active too ofcourse.
Plus there is several dirt circuit tracks around the country, at least a dozen that I can think of.
There was at least 5 bitumen ovals too in the late 70s, though most are dirt again now. Plus the Bob Jane owner Thunderdome which is aprox a mile high bank oval. Though not currently in use.

[Terry Walker]

Not to mention the fabled WACA, of test cricket fame. It was also a motorcycle speedway in the late 20s early 30s, when there used to be an athletics track around the perimeter. Which accounts for why the WACA was such a large cricket ground, because the track was later grassed over and became part of the oval.

There've been dozens and dozens of speedway circuits in WA alone, my favourite being the ambitiously named "Roebourne International Raceway" which I drove past in 1982, more than slightly amazed by the grandiose name. Roebourne has a population numbering in the high hundreds. The speedway is no more.

In the late 50s there was the great TQ wave, which saw dirt TQ clubs, and dirt TQ tracks, spring up all over the place. At the same time just about every country town had a motorbike scramble track. There was even one at Bullfinch when I was a kid. I don't think anyone has ever tried to catalogue every motor sport venue in Australia; might be a thread in it.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
.....In the late 50s there was the great TQ wave, which saw dirt TQ clubs, and dirt TQ tracks, spring up all over the place. At the same time just about every country town had a motorbike scramble track. There was even one at Bullfinch when I was a kid. I don't think anyone has ever tried to catalogue every motor sport venue in Australia; might be a thread in it.

And do you count go kart tracks?

Leaving motorcycle stuff out of it, there must be many hundreds out there. Terry, you unearthed a few interesting ones in Fast Tracks like Oxley and Toowoomba and Pound Hill, but when you include speedway and dirt short circuits the list will be endless. Even at Amaroo Park there was one of the latter, as well as a go kart track.

Edited by Ray Bell, 18 January 2010 - 02:02.

[Bernd]

You'd have to be a masochist to include Kart Tracks.

[Ray Bell]

Yeah, I'd agree with that...

But the numbers of car tracks will be staggering anyway. There was racing, apparently, once at Rutherford near Newcastle. On a mine site, around 1919 I was told.

[Lee Nicolle]

Not to mention the fabled WACA, of test cricket fame. It was also a motorcycle speedway in the late 20s early 30s, when there used to be an athletics track around the perimeter. Which accounts for why the WACA was such a large cricket ground, because the track was later grassed over and became part of the oval.

There've been dozens and dozens of speedway circuits in WA alone, my favourite being the ambitiously named "Roebourne International Raceway" which I drove past in 1982, more than slightly amazed by the grandiose name. Roebourne has a population numbering in the high hundreds. The speedway is no more.

In the late 50s there was the great TQ wave, which saw dirt TQ clubs, and dirt TQ tracks, spring up all over the place. At the same time just about every country town had a motorbike scramble track. There was even one at Bullfinch when I was a kid. I don't think anyone has ever tried to catalogue every motor sport venue in Australia; might be a thread in it.

Ofcourse the Sydney Showgrounds and the Brisbane Exhibition Ground have been used as has Wayville Showgrounds here in Adelaide.
A lot of provincial centres have run speedway on showgrounds and ovals. Bendigo is one, I believe maitland and the solos run on a couple too.

[brooklandsairstrip]

Not to mention the fabled WACA, of test cricket fame. It was also a motorcycle speedway in the late 20s early 30s, when there used to be an athletics track around the perimeter. Which accounts for why the WACA was such a large cricket ground, because the track was later grassed over and became part of the oval.

There've been dozens and dozens of speedway circuits in WA alone, my favourite being the ambitiously named "Roebourne International Raceway" which I drove past in 1982, more than slightly amazed by the grandiose name. Roebourne has a population numbering in the high hundreds. The speedway is no more.

In the late 50s there was the great TQ wave, which saw dirt TQ clubs, and dirt TQ tracks, spring up all over the place. At the same time just about every country town had a motorbike scramble track. There was even one at Bullfinch when I was a kid. I don't think anyone has ever tried to catalogue every motor sport venue in Australia; might be a thread in it.

....and dare I ask....what about the slot car racing circuits from the 50's 60's and 70's ?

[Rob Semmeling]

I would like to raise the Brooklands track at Werrington, NSW once again to see if we can piece together some further details. The track has come up a few times before, in this thread but also here and here.

The Penrith City Council website writes the following about Brooklands:

Even before the building of the Penrith Speedway however, Victor Sutherland of Frogmore began the construction of a speedway for cars and motorcycles on the eastern part of his property at what is now known as Werrington Park. He called the track Brooklands after the famous English racing track. This track was already in operation in June 1923, although it had not been completed.

Unfortunately, Sutherland’s wife Caroline died in 1924, and he seems to have lost heart after this. Victor's brother-in-law, George Ellison took up residence and the local Moran family grazed cattle on the speedway paddock, with Clifford Moran often using the speedway oval as an airstrip.

However, this does not add up with the timeline found in contemporary newspaper reports. The Sydney Morning Herald of 17 June 1925 mentions the registration of the new Brooklands Speedway company:

The following new companies have been registered (...) Brooklands Speedway, Ltd. Capital £50,000 divided into 1000 shares of £50 each. To aquire 107 acres of land at Werrington, and to erect thereon a speedway. First directors N. Jacobs, V.E. Sutherland, H.T. Howard, J.W. Browne, G.J. Leydon.

The same newspaper gives more details in its issue of 25 February 1926:

Brooklands Speedway Ltd.

Capital: £50,000, in 1000 shares of £50 each

Directors:

J. Warwick Browne (Chairman)
A.V. Turner
V.E. Sutherland
H.T. Howard

The company is constructing a Speedway comparable with the best tracks abroad, on which really high-speed motor racing draws attendances of 100,000 or more spectators.

An ideal site has been secured, one that cannot be equalled anywhere in the County of Cumberland; right at Werrington Station, and bounded by the Great Western road, access and rapid dispersal are excellently provided for. A unique natural grandstand rises right from the edge of the finishing straight.

The company's consultants have designed the track to incorporate the good features of the world's speedways, while their faults have been avoided. It will have the advantages that the curves and embankments are scientifically correct; the track is symmetrical; the whole of the racing will be clearly visible to the spectators (and to the paying ones only); the length of 1.5 mile gives an exact number of laps for races of fives miles and multiples of that distance; the width of 80-90 feet is ample; the grounds are accessible by rail as well as by road; every possible safety precaution will be provided for the competitors, and the public will be given absolute immunity.

Six months have been occupied in the preparation of detail plans to ensure that the track will be as fast, smooth and safe as any in the world. Its dimensions conform to those of the newest and fastest European and American tracks. Only a properly laid-out speedway can be successful.

A new prospectus is being issued. All connection between the company and the City Properties Trust Co. has been severed. Applications for unsold shares may be made to The Secretary, Kembla Building, Margaret Street, Sydney.

High-speed motor racing on first-class tracks will always charm and hold public interest, whatever may be the fate of the smaller motordromes.

Site, Design and Project inimpeachable.

But after that... nothing. It is obvious from aerial photos and maps the track was indeed built, if not necessarily completed, and apparently at a smaller scale than originally planned. It seems to have been closer to a mile rather than a mile-and-a-half.

But the main question is: did it operate? Yes, I know Terry writes it didn't in his excellent Fast Tracks book, but why does the Penrith City Council think the speedway held motor racing in June 1923, when clearly the Brooklands company hadn't even been established by then?

[David McKinney]

Seems fairly clear to me

There was racing at Penrith speedway in June 1923 after which Sutherland and his associates set up a company to build a better facility at the venue

[Ray Bell]

I'm a little lost here...

David, Brooklands was at Werrington, several miles to the east of where Penrith Speedway was located. Are we talking about two speedways here or just one?